I´m stuck in an endless loop of disappointment, repeating the exact same steps again, over and over.
Start a job at a new company where they are working with raw Revit.
Can´t really talk to them about improvement/development because they have no understanding of what can be done.
Invest half a year of free time to build up a system of families, parameters, updaters, python tools, etc…
Release to the team and pretty much change the life of the people who would never have thought something like that could be possible.
Having a happy, thankful team that saves about 20% time now in every project.
Additionally always getting the unsolvable work to do because some coworkers are limited in their skills.
After all the work, as a token of appreciation I get the following from the company:
A minimum salary contract.
At negotiating conditions I get responses like:
It is not fair to ask for additional payments because everyone in the team should get the same money.
We did not order that why should we pay you for it?
Oh but we take all the stuff you built, thanks for that.
Been through that now multiple times, thought this time it would work out because I addressed this at the job interview and from there on again and again.
I feel used, not taken seriously and yes I know it is my own fault to do the same mistakes again and again. But what would have been my options?
The worst experience I had was a company where it was not allowed to use dynamo at all. It was not allowed to install anything but we had an affiliate company that produced revit “addons” so bad that revit was unusable.
The best experience was getting offered 1500€ single payment for my ~600 hours of work…
So I´m asking myself, is being self employed the only option?
I really would be interested in your experiences. How could you convince your employers that development is worth money?
Thanks for listening and kind regards from Vienna!
First, remember that you’re not alone in facing challenges at work.
It’s important to recognize that in any organization, the attitude of top management towards development is crucial. If they don’t support growth and innovation, it’s often futile to resist this stance. Instead, focus on strategizing ways to bring about change. Middle management may resist initiatives they can’t completely control, often failing to acknowledge the value of such efforts. Conversely, junior employees usually embrace new developments enthusiastically. However, without support from top-level management, achieving recognition for your efforts can be challenging, and you might also need to navigate the complexities posed by middle management.
One of the great aspects of this group is the opportunity it provides to connect with like-minded individuals. Sometimes, you’ll find others who share your passion for innovation, offering a sense of solidarity and understanding.
Hi,
(I am a teacher so it is difficult for me to give you advice and give you feedback).
(As for your boss, an idiot, it’s always difficult to make him more intelligent, you’re dealing with a pure and die-hard opportunist and profiteer)
I think that performance has improved and so has the comfort of your teammates (even if the recognition of colleagues is important, it is unfortunately true that this does not pay the bills)
You at least have my concern friend, you just have to see the hard worker that you are, it’s a shame that this is not recognized at its true value.
Smarter people browsing (Employee and/or business manager) the forum will be good advice.
Let’s consider the roles in the firm: production staff, designer, management, technologist, principal… Each of these are not paid the same in a form, or across firms.
And if you feel you are paid less than the value you provide, you need to negotiate your pay accordingly. Unfortunately the easiest time to negotiate with a company is when you don’t already work there; many in the industry and beyond get their pay by shifting employers often - I had one friend who left a firm five times (each on his own desire) to get paid better at another firm in town…
The one advantage you have is that as a technologist it is easier to moonlight at scale by selling the tools you produce. Just be sure to never work on the moonlighting tasks while on the clock or when utilizing company property (including software licenses) in any way.
The last point here is that for technology to be effectively applied requires a significant degree of change management. That change management needs executive sponsorship to encourage and enable the change. A HUGE part of that is enabling and valuing the people who produce the tools and the super users of the tools. It certainly sounds as if you are in a situation where the executive sponsor isn’t valuing you as you would like. Unfortunately I have seen that often the only way to fix that is to move on.
I’d suggest the construction industry is a little backwards and management don’t grasp what’s a good idea…
Some huge firms don’t even use Revit very well and won’t employ people to help beyond that’s required by law. Chances of them seeing the value of anything else is close to zero.
Very short sighted and very frustrating.
What country are you in? I get the impression some are better at embracing the future than others…
Most of the jobs I’d really like to do, that pay a sensible salary, are not in my location.
I’m not in the industry anymore, but used to be! So here are my thoughts based on that Architectural history (Numerous firms) and my role now at Autodesk
I echo what others have said that having buy-in is important from the management structure above you. But, it can also work so long as they are not against it; In my former life I’ve worked where using Dynamo was fine as the thing that mattered was getting the job done, and I did that well. Management in that case didn’t care if Dynamo was used, or it was manually done, so long as it was done in a reasonable timeframe.
The skillset you’ve developed, and continue to develop is recognized and sought after out there - just maybe not where you are currently looking. As you are based in the EU, London for example loves Architectural staff who understand BIM and Computational Design.
Visual programming can be a gateway drug to Software Development in general, and many users of this forum have taken that path and forged careers and companies from it - such as @Havard_Vasshaug with Reope or @Mark_Thorley1, @Radu_Gidei and #DavidFlynn with KOPE and they often seek “Architects who can Code” as coding is but one part of the game, with subject matter expertise and an understanding of the “Why” the other.
The intersection of someone who understands AEC implicitly, can code to a high degree and is self-motivating is a bit of a unicorn and you will find someone who values that when you put yourself out there. If staying in AEC then the larger or high-end firms typically value this more than smaller ones.
I have experienced many bad companies that I encountered when talking to them and sharing in terms of technology. I want to say how terrible IT system is in the construction industry in software installation processes. But you know, you are not lonely, keep your faith and continue learning, sharing knowledge is the key. If you want to convince your company, persuade your senior managers, otherwise find a company that suits your development.
London seems to be an island. Job requirements for Dynamo seem to be almost non-existent in the rest of the UK unless you want to be a BIM manager and spend 90% of your time writing BEPs and reading the ISOs…
I wonder why this is.
Living in London costs £££££ too but the salaries are not £££££.
I’ve seen 1-2 Dynamo jobs dotted elsewhere in the EU but they’re not that common. Maybe in 10 years all this hard work will pay off but currently I also feel like gerhard.p . From what I’ve seen I’d get paid more if I went back to no coding.
I agree with everything that has been said previously.
while waiting for better days, keep learning, knowledge is very precious
Everything material is finite, but potential knowledge is infinite, being immaterial. When we share a material good, we divide it, when we share an intangible good, we multiply it. (Idriss Aberkane)
Believe in yourself, one day your work will be rewarded for its fair value (perhaps by another company), you deserve it, @gerhard.p
Creating scripts is very hard and frustrating by default, we never know how to do it as best as we are not supposed to be programmers of the tools we use for work. Need to dedicate so many hours that are not paid because need to learn and have many error trials to find some success on it.
Usually the jobs are not about creating scripts, so I built scripts for my own productivity benefit but not shared to the team unless it’s clearly critical solution or the role itself demands its development specifically. So never got paid to do it, but do your own work smarter not harder.
Overall looks rewarding but the pain is there and difficult to sell the benefits of scripts as usually they don’t ultimately reassure the job done and delivered. If managers trust it makes it more easy, otherwise they may understand you are playing games skipping work but not real work.
Yes totally agree in everything here…one issue as i see is we have many managers in wrong position, Which has not kept up with the rapid development in aec, and dont understand how we can optimize workflows with digital tools…but i guess many specielly bigger firms have an eye on that at least here in dk…but still can be better…but only a matter of time if they have to compete on time and quality. in the future…= money…just my thought
Larger architecture offices are somewhat concentrated in London when looking at the UK, and firms which want a specialist have to be of a particular size so those 10 person firms likely aren’t hiring and paying well because of another skill - guessing that they’re more likely to outsource what they need.
From there we get into supply and demand. A role has to open up or a firm has to grow into needing one for there to be a new spot, and unlike London such actions take a move or career pivot for those currently in the role to vacate due to the paragraph above.
All of that said a quick Google found four openings in Manchester (not sure where you are - I just picked another city in England) in about 15 minutes. They might not be at a starcitext office, but they are great opertunities and at firms which I know value their employees.
So when wooing a big client you can take them on an impressive tour of your showroom office with the 100’s of superstars doing stuff on monitors which neither the person selling nor the person buying understand.
There are not such jobs in China.I’m using a lot of software for model and drawings for building construction and conceptual design.I use AutoCAD and Revit more often based on the project.I have used Rhino and SketchUp as well.Company will not pay which software I use.
Personally I use dynamo for two things.Get rid of rhino use dynamo for computational design.I have used it for 3 real project.Two stadiums and one office building.They have complex shape or facade.Which I have to make accurate model to get contour boundary line.
Second I which is not necessary.I use dynamo for automation.For example.create model from existing CAD file like walls windows,coulmns,rooms.etc.And create multiple sheets with dynamo player.Create dimensions of grids with one click.Create and renew windows or doors legend automatically rather than manually.Usually company will not pay these dynamo scripts or graphs.But I use it for my own workflow.
Unfortunately I have meet manager who take charges of BIM but even don’t know how to use Revit.He or she takes the job because it pays well and all he or she does is making PowerPoint for boss.She need stuff to boasts and she doesn’t care because she and the boss won’t use it.This is very common phenomenon if you know Chinese firms.
However I don’t care.I‘m enthusiastic about new tools for computational design and automation（dealing with repetitive boring stuff which takes huge of time).I use it for my own and I don’t totally work for a specific company or leader.
the problem with data-driven working in architecture offices is: it is not integrated in the “money/hour” calculation. Clients mostly are not interested in the topic “my project as Data-model”. When They are interested, than only(!) for claim-management. Data-creation and evaluating is outside of any benefit to workers and planers.
architecture offices structured like: F.e. when our IT-Department develop a “auto-save-button” for mails - they get applause. When i develop a button in a PyRevit-Toolbar i get the question " Why you are not finishing the door-schedules…". I think the working culture has to change at all. I worked in Germany and Austria…
Yes to change company is the only way to rise your salary.
I think a lot about these topics… sometimes is like in a bad movie … “when BIM becomes Shadowboxing”
“Office Space” for AEC, only instead of TPS reports it’s time sheets. And instead of four bosses you have to report up to six six. And instead of a printer it’s a plotter.
