OK here is my problem and I am just starting out. when we laser scan a building and start building. when we have an existing ceiling grid we match it up with a typical 2 x 2 or 2 x 4 Revit ceiling grid. The problem is when we export it out to SketchUp the ceiling grid lines disappear, so the designers need to redo the ceiling grid with ruby script ceiling grid(not an easy task in SketchUp). so we came up with the sloped glazing ceiling grid under the ceiling by 1/8" then you have to change the x and y to match up with the dumb grid. this takes forever for a larger project with many dropped ceilings.
steps
- make a typical 1" thick ceiling with a 2x2 or 2x4 pattern and line it up with the correct height laser scanned point cloud.
- utilize our template sloped glazing ceiling grid over the existing ceiling by editing the original and copy the sketch lines. then edit the sloped glazing perimeter and erase it lines and paste the existing perimeter lines back in place. then finish.
- click the original ceiling and note the height (F.E. 8’-0")
- click on the new sloped glazing and change it elevation to 1/8" below the Revit ceiling (F.E. 7’-11 7/8")
- realign the t grids x and y location to line up with the Revit ceiling pattern
this takes so much time i’m sure there is a way to do this with ease using dynamo I just don’t know where to start.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
There’s a node in Sparrow which can extract 2 way surface patterns from ceilings. Last I tried it, it had some bugs but might be worth a shot.
I’d be careful with sloped glazing as it has some limitations when trying to orientate a grid away from project north, or work with differing grid orientations in general.
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Also, there’s a post over here : Reducing Material Waste with Generative Design - Dynamo BIM
That demonstrates how to align the grids and all that. But it does not cover extracting the grids from the ceiling elements as it does the layout with Generative Design.
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Thank you I did see that one but after further watching I realized it is adding model lines not geometry. but it does give me hope I can create something in dynamo.
I will look a sparrow now
thanks as always
Ohh here is something I can work with. I will see what I can do with this one. it verifys that it can be done using dynamo I will keep everyone posted on my results
Generate mass elements from the rooms. Then generate a 2x2 or 4x4 curtain system attached to the top of the mass. Individual curtain panels can be swapped out for lights, diffusers, etc. Do it all the time. But only for non-standard ceilings.
If it is just for rendering, I do this in a linked model. We can export for rendering, and then unload the link for construction documents.
But I typically only do this for very specific specialty ceilings. Like the one I did a couple of weeks ago with an open ceiling grid and some random tiles and fixtures.
If you are using a respectable rendering system - like Vray - then you really don’t need to do any of this and it really is a waste of time. Using anything more than one flat plane is file bloat for rendering standard ceilings. You can do it with a diffuse map (colors), a bump map (tile texture), and a displacement map (grid 3D steps and edges.) Toss in some opacity mapping for those perforated panels. The UV mapping should translate over to your rendering system. Just make your material match. I use 3ds and Vray so it is pretty seamless. Don’t know about Sketchup.
It isn’t a geometry issue, but a rendering material issue. Tell your rendering staff to step up their game. You’ll save a bunch of time.
Open ceiling grid from Curtain Wall System:
Just preliminary open grid in progesss.
Model lines in 3ds Max can be made render able as a 3d shape. So, it can be a good solution for rendering small elements without a lot of extra overhead. All of my pendant fixtures are drawn with just a line for the cord/support. Looks better in Revit and renders as a tube in 3ds Max.
Example of a displacement map generating 3d geometry on the fly during rendering. No extra geometry required. UV mapping from Revit.
Peter Guthrie has a nice tutorial with a more complex panel.
Free texture - expanded metal — PETER GUTHRIE
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yea we know how to render maps just fine but as I said this is a site element and the ceiling stays the same as what was already built. (Lighting and grid both open and drop) so to kill 2 birds with one stone we get the Revit right for CD’s and just export it out for the SketchUp/Lumion (and yes, I know 3D studio and V-Ray are both far superior but time vs money Lumion can’t be beat. and as for designing existing spaces Sketchup blows away 3D studio with ease.
I will keep plugging thanks for the feedback. always much appreciated
I agree. I wouldn’t consider modeling an existing space in 3DS max. Nor in Sketchup. If we’re going to do an existing space - it goes right into Revit so no data is lost switching software as we move between design and CD’s…
I’m still at a loss on why you would want to model all the tees when virtually all the rendering software on the market can render displacement maps(?)
(…as for our Vray use - it is pretty much the only thing that can keep up with hundreds - or often thousands - of lights in a large casino project.)
in Lumion the bump mapping is a pick by pick and then adjust the t bar locations respectfully. if you have 50 ceilings it just takes time (to look at the image and then keep plugging in the x’s and y’s maps. so much faster in Revit, and in Lumion it just looks better lol (Yes, I know it adds to the poly count, but we have great hardware for that lol.
also we do laser scanning and can see the exact locations of the t grid in Revit from the point cloud.
OK phase 1 works to create the sloped glazing from a ceiling at level 1. now I need to figure out how to move it to a level offset from the ceiling. F.E. level 1 is at 0 and the ceiling is at 9’ so I need the new sloped glazing to offset up to that ceiling.
so Phase 2 it to move it up to the right elevation even if dynamo has to make some dumb levels and then clean them up
then align the x y offsets to match the ceiling grid
any suggestions?
Trust the climb lol
Is that Sketchup to Lumion or Revit to Lumion? Seems like either not maintaining UB coordinates is a big miss(?) Just curious.
Enscape and Vray Revit plugin seem to do fine with the UV mapping.
aaron I think you are missing the point our process is simple.
- we go to a existing site and laser scan the site to get a point cloud.
- bring in the point cloud to Revit and build everything as existing. (that is where the 3d grid comes in)
- we dump out to SketchUp (if it is just a hatch pattern the ceiling grid lines disappear as just flat plains.
- The designers then design the space in SketchUp and then link it in Lumion for render (if high rendering is needed)
- We then use the approved SketchUp and make the CDs (Designers don’t know Revit) of the design intent from the SketchUp model.
- delete the 3d grid and then just use the built in Revit ceiling elements.
So, the 3D grid is just for show only but for the designers in SketchUp (and then to Lumion) to get the grid (using ceiling grid generator in SketchUp) there is not a pick point you have to split the plane where the intersection is. so, the grid starts in that place. to make matters worse if they don’t have 2x2 or 2x4 lights. They don’t have the point cloud like we do in Revit to follow.
It is just so much of a time saver to do the grid in Revit One step (is what I am trying to create in dynamo). Not the 5 or 6 steps they need to do using SketchUp plugins and Lumion displacement maps
And not all projects go to Lumion they are just schematic SketchUp.
Dumping out to SketchUp preserves the UV mapping. Yes, the grid disappears, because you don’t have an appropriate material defined. Nothing should need to be done other than have the right textures loaded. from a standard library. You’re using FBX as an export to Sketchup? All lights and ceiling hosted elements should be right where they need to be.
Yes, you can get and rebuild a ceiling 3d grid. It will take some digging in the API with .Net. I’ll post that separately.
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No to the fbx. I have revit dump out to dwg and then import it in to Sketchup create tags that have correct layer names for ease of use. Also have a few ruby created plugins to wipe the materials (except glass) to give the designers a clean slate. and then group all tags by name. Then clean up all the stray lines.
Once again teaching designers new tricks is not my goal. My goal is to use Revit to help out their already established process. the grid is a point and time element. It will be deleted after the CD phase is started.
Ok. So for the ceiling grid here are a couple of options. One is a bunch of programing. The second will take some basic drawing input in Revit.
Ther is no direct way to get the material pattern geometry directly. So you need to build your own representation. Jeremy discusses that here:
The Building Coder: Hatch Line Dimensioning Voodoo (typepad.com)
See Option 3.
There is also some discussion here.:
Align Surface Patterns to Wall Edge - Dynamo (dynamobim.com)
These are old topics and the Code isn’t for 2023, So there are updates needed, such as Surface PatternID is now SurfaceForegroupdPatternID. Or it could be SurfaceBackroundPattern ID. 
Not straightforward. But might get you what you want.
A more straightforward approach would be to feed dynamo a Revit object dynamo could easily digest.
Options might include:
- Alight fixture centered in a grid.
- Two model lines placed on the ceiling grid X and Y grid lines. Could be any two perpendicular edges.
- A simple generic family - (Could be as simple as just a circle or X.)
All of these will be able to determine a origin (location) point for the intersection of the ceiling grid. In the example of the light, you can see that from the location of the light I can get the U and V offset needed based on the size of the light to the grid lines surrounding it. Using the rotation of the light, I can get the direction for the grid.
With this basic information, you can use the ceilings geometry to pull out the bottom plane, the boundary loops and build a grid. and or tiles.
You could also make a small widget that is placed on the ceiling and locked to the grid. The same properties could be used to start building your grid. Personally, I’d go this direction out of the 3 options, because it would be easy to pull all the data I need with one simple widget. And I could always look for the same widget. And it gives the draftsman a simple visual tool to work with
You could also lace a couple of model lines on the ceiling in the U and V directions. Then use their intersection as the origin for the grid and their endpoints for rotation direction. Not my favorite option.
So, a lot depends on your programing skill level and how much python you want to code. Time vs elegance.
Another option - no programing needed - would be to do a hybrid approach to your exports. Use your AutoCAD export to export a majority of the geometry. Leave out the ceilings.
Then export the ceilings separately as FBX. That should preserve the UV coordinates as well as the materials and maps already set up in Revit. This should be plug-and-play in Sketchup.
I often use this hybrid approach for export. Revit can be too coarse when going out to DWG. So, I might want some items to export to FBX for higher level of detail - specifically round and elliptical objects.
Of course, the real time saver would be to get the designers out of Sketchup and into Revit. Rendering is live with the Revit model. No time is lost re-drawing elements and translating SketchUp back to construction documents. SD/DD and CD could all be happening at the same time. Multiple users could be designing at the same time. Not to mention Design Options. (Sorry, but you really are losing hours with your current workflow.)
