# Trouble with planes **URL:** \ **Category:** Geometry\ **Tags:** dynamo, workplane, familyinstance\ **Created:** [June 5, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/trouble-with-planes/36794 "2019-06-05T23:01:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 3\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Tainted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/45deac/32.png) [@Tainted](https://forum.dynamobim.com/u/Tainted)\ **Post date:** [June 5, 2019, 11:01pm UTC](https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/trouble-with-planes/36794/1 "2019-06-05T23:01:30Z")
Hey everyone, I am having a difficult time understanding planes in Dynamo and was wondering if anyone can help me. I am not sure if this is a family problem or if I’m doing something wrong so I would like some insight. Here is my situation. I want to add a target in the middle and I managed to do that. The problem that I am getting is when I try to place that target somewhere else. ![ktiMhpdQgp](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/4/5/4575304f4e6c28ab02137b7a3494c97f22c17c9a.gif). I know that I can rotate the family but then I get an error when I try to do that. ![Revit_NW06fxEKDZ](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/c/f/cf38777e2bdca85578a99554877ec66f04648294.png) I can manually add the target in the middle but then I would have to do something like this. ![qvrBfbxDZf](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/b/6/b626d9eb782ae6c6c0a9f16d6fe907764c0ef94a.gif) I think this has to do with planes and Dynamo not recognizing what plane to place the family on. However, I did create a plane in Dynamo but the family is still not being put there. ![Revit_AYBLmxyikg](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/a/d/ad8f8350f37b988387e5ba858d61600c188529d4.png) I am not sure what I am doing wrong and I would appreciate it if someone helped me. Here is my Revit file and graph. ![Capture](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/e/b/eb7db26e34240f235cfcee49e7a28313a86632f8.png) [Middle2.rvt (1.7 MB)](https://forum.dynamobim.com/uploads/short-url/xngYTtbLUBPYCMf89iPSX51j71s.rvt) [Target in Middle.dyn (57.2 KB)](https://forum.dynamobim.com/uploads/short-url/cE3hmc3d8imWjb2kDLi97QUESuG.dyn) ---
**Author:** ![jacob.small](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/user_avatar/forum.dynamobim.com/jacob.small/32/161030_2.png) [@jacob.small](https://forum.dynamobim.com/u/jacob.small)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 12:27am UTC](https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/trouble-with-planes/36794/2 "2019-06-06T00:27:00Z")
This isn’t an issue with planes so much as t is with the hosting of the element. The FamilyInstance.ByPoint node doesn’t allow for elements to have an altered Z state, so you either have to use a method like [FamilyInstance.ByFace](https://dictionary.dynamobim.com/#/Revit/Elements/FamilyInstance/Create/ByFace(familyType_FamilyType-face_Surface-location_Point-referenceDirection_Vector)) or apply a transform after placing the family. The manual method you show appears to be closer to the FamilyInstance.ByFace method but I’m not quite sure. ---
**Author:** ![Tainted](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/45deac/32.png) [@Tainted](https://forum.dynamobim.com/u/Tainted)\ **Post date:** [June 6, 2019, 8:15pm UTC](https://forum.dynamobim.com/t/trouble-with-planes/36794/3 "2019-06-06T20:15:38Z")
Hey Jacob, I took the advice you said by trying out familyinstance.byface but I keep getting an error and everything seems correct to me so not sure what is going on. I also tried using springs familyinstance.byfaceandpoint but that one gives me a null result and again I am clueless on why that is. I also tried the transform node and it works just fine. However, when I transform it, the location it is placed at is off so I will have to do some tinkering to get it to the right location. Futhermore, the transform node only accepts geometry and not a family instance. So once I find the proper location I need to turn it back into a family instance and I have no idea how to do that. Maybe I am overthinking this but here is what I got so far. ![Revit_wm0AI0Q1NS](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/1/6/16794a85a37e23da2397a2a231ce807b76cca094.png) EDIT: I actually ended up figuring out why byface node was not working. I just had to add 2 more extra nodes and it worked as intended. ![Revit_NaUxmGitgq](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex022/uploads/dynamobim/original/3X/9/4/94680c8b934b812ff945a6e28706fb7b93daaca9.png) I would still like an explanation on the whole transform node though. Maybe i’m just using it wrong or something. How would I transform a family instance and then put back that family instance once it is rotated? May I get an example of this if its too much to ask?