Composed Wall with Hollow Interior - Structure/Architecture Criteria


#1

Hi Everyone,

This question is more Revit oriented. I’m wondering if there is a chance to create a wall type that has a hollow core, so I can put a concrete wall (structural) inside it. I want to have the finishing separated from the concrete wall.

I don’t want a case like this:

because when I place a door (for ex.) I’ll just have a structural concrete wall with a shaft in it and I really want 2 walls at the sides of the opening and a beam element at the top of the door.

So, if I could have it independently I can model my structural elements avoiding the opening set by Architecture.

Question 1: Is it possible to do this? I’m open to suggestions here.

Another option that came with is to define the finishing elements independent for each side of the wall and place them where they will be, but if I create a door or a window and put it one of the finishing elements, it will have the finishing thickness and not crossing to the other side of the wall so the other finishing is getting open.

Question 2: Is there a way to adjust the door/window family to do this?

Question 3: Here I’m open to suggestions related to your expertise in this field. How do you deal with openings when Structure and Architecture are being coordinated? In my country, as I said before, we detail the elements independently (beams, walls, etc.)

Thanks in advance for your time and knowledge!


#2

Parts maybe? Can you show a sketch to clarify the issue?


#3

Hi @JacobSmall, thanks for your time:


#4

Looks like either parts or multiple walls can accomplish what you’re after. I avoid the multiple walls when possible as they can be very painful to manage joins, but it can be done. Model the core wall, then place the other walls on the face. Make sure material returns are correctly set. Lastly join them together to force the door to cut all 3. It’s tedius, but then again, so is parts. Dynamo can expedite some of this workflow, but it’s still a lot of work.


#5

Thanks for your @JacobSmall, but I’m not sure if I understood correctly your suggestion. Could you make a sketch please?


#6

It’d be the same as your sketch, but with three walls - one on the interior, one on the exterior, and the internal wall. Cut lines in this screenshot is overridden by element - one internal concrete wall, one exterior compound wall, one interior compound wall. To get the header in the concrete I’d likely go with parts or use a structural framing member.

image


#7

Thanks a lot, @JacobSmall. Now I see that this is related to the option 2 (question 2)

For parts, you mean a composite element like from my first image? but How to make the core hollow?


#8

I’m answering the first question. (Sorry my nomenclature ignorance)

https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/revit-products/learn-explore/caas/CloudHelp/cloudhelp/2016/ENU/Revit-Model/files/GUID-22D24055-61A2-40BB-A2F7-A37990300B2B-htm.html)

But only have left, How do I create a part that is Hollow?

Thanks in advance!


#9

For parts it’s a single wall, with all the layers combined into a single Revit element, then click the “create parts” button. You can then divide and edit the various layers of the wall, even assigning new materials and thickening/returning layers to fine tune the stuff Revit doesn’t do correctly when it guesses. It’s time consuming, but you have a lot more control. Just make sure to set the “show parts” for the relevant views.

Simply click “exclude part” for the ‘hollow’ part, or edit the material, sketch, shape to create the divisions you need. That took ~20 minutes to build from a blank template, and accurately represents the studs, insulation, concrete, beam, and gypsum returns in all views of the wall (at least as far as I understand you’re looking for). :wink:


#10

Wow! @JacobSmall That’s a nice job! I really appretiate your effort and your time.

I can’t find the “exclude” option.

If it’s not a problem, could you please upload the file in your image?

Thanks in advance!


#11

The make parts button is in the modify tab after you draw the wall. I will directly send you a copy of the file instead of posting back to the forum.


#12

Jacob, I’ve been working with parts with a Wall and this is the best approach to what I’m looking for. I realized that when you want to create windows and doors you have to create them before you create parts on your wall, so when the parts are created, the element remains. Am I right?

Another thing I realized is that when you exclude the core section (for ex.), and create a structural wall instead, in the same position, a warning pops up saying that “one element is contained in the other”. The question is: For scheduling purposes, does this impacts to the concrete volume? Do I have to create parts in every wall element that I create - is for instances only? I’m asking this because as you said, it is a painful process and I don’t know if the Architect will want to change his workflow so I can put my structural elements as I want.

Have you dealt with this crossroads? How did you manage to have Architecture and Structure coordinated if the modeling criteria between this two projects are defined differently?

Thanks in advance.


#13

Yes that is correct. Make the parts last.

It does place overlapping walls which can lead to double counting on the schedules. Remember the original wall still remains (change a view to ‘show original’ and you’ll see this). Best to use a different material in the structural or architectural wall so you can work that out. Maybe just let the architect deal with all of it and let your wall overlap his? You can always model the header into your opening.

I’ve always been on the architectural end, and have always played the role of ‘hey we hired you donit this way’ after listening to those workflow. Most often that meant I used a dummy wall in my job for the concrete until their wall was in place and ready for me, then I deleted it and left the furring walls as they were, or just said ‘screw it material take offs are the GC’s job’ and let the counts be doubled. In that case my wall matched the structural wall which was linked so they could always exclude the link from the schedule to get the right count.

-jacob


#14

Thanks, @JacobSmall I’m on the Structural End. What you have recommended is what I thought I have to do. I think we have to communicate the Architect how we will be working to confront this.

Thanks again for the help and for sharing your experience. If we come up with something new I’ll post it here.

Dear regards!


#15

Glad I could help. Message me any time.